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| Sunday, November 22nd, 2009 |
frogspace
|
10:34p |
Merlin 2x09: The Lady of the Lake (und noch mehr Merlin) Ich war das ganze Wochenende über weg und jage gerade den Merlin-Einträgen hinterher, um in den Squee-Reaktionen zur gestrigen Folge zu baden. :D ( Mein eigenes Squee ) derryere: Squee und Spoiler für die nächste Folge. cherrybina: Clip der letzten Szene und Spekulationen über andere Merlin-Neuigkeiten, bei denen der Slash sich von alleine schreibt. Ein Link zu dem Clip für Children in Need 2009 mit der angetäuschten Merlin/Arthur-Blobjob-Szene. Fotos, Clips und Berichte von dem Merlin BAFTA Event. Bradley James über seine Einstellung zum Theater und sein Vorschlag, wie Arthur von Merlins Magie erfahren sollte. Ich mag wie der Mann denkt und was er zu sagen hat. Wenn ich Bradley reden höre, will ich RPF lesen. /o\ In diesem Sinne hier schon einmal ( eine RPF Rec )Und dann die Ankündigung für nächste Woche: Bradley and Colin went on a roadtrip together (!!!) und wir bekommen das zusammengefasst in 30 Minuten als Wasser auf die RPF-Mühlen geschüttet! Stars of the hit drama series Merlin, Colin Morgan and Bradley James, set off across Wales to explore the country's centuries-old connections to the legend of King Arthur and his wizard Merlin. Along the way they encounter enthusiasts and experts in Arthurian lore, and visit some of the most breathtaking landscapes in Wales. Ich kann es kaum erwarten, die Tonnen an Fanfic zu lesen, die in einer Woge über uns herein brechen wird. OMG!!! |
dragovianknight
|
1:28p |
I think the worst thing ...about SPN 5x10 was not the events of the episode themselves, but rather that the episode still fell flat for me, so that I was left going, "Wait, that's it, it's over? What was the point*?" * ( Small spoilery 'point' behind the cut. ) |
meta_roundup
[ mero_update ]
|
9:40p |
Issue #121 Help & writing resourcesIn an untitled post, bridgetmkennit explains the tags system and the four different types of warnings at the Archive Of Our Own, and how to use them. lore: BloMo18: Tis the season of saving stories....: tips on saving fanfic stories "in a format that can be easily transferred to most reading devices without losing the author's intended passages of emphasis". There have been a few posts on BDSM, community rules and terminology, intended as resources for writers and to clear up some common misunderstandings. In Hi! My name is Minxie…, the_minx_17 talks about general rules and some stereotypes. irana wrote On BDSM, Part I to explain the abbreviations SCC and RACK, and to talk about consent. On BDSM, Part II covers negotiation (both Scene and Relationship negotiation). InsaneJournalAn InsaneJournal Holiday Sale just started. Self-Committed (i.e. paid) accounts and Extra Userpics will be available at reduced prices until November 27th. Friday the 27th will also have a short sale on Permanently Insane accounts. das_dingsi: Updating habits: "The interesting part is how it made me view the update page more closely than usual and I consciously noticed all the things I don't use [on InsaneJournal]." Other bitterfig: where do they make subtext?: "I always wonder where stuff like (i.e. homoerotic and/or incestuous subtext) this comes from, is it intentional or just a quirk of chemistry?" lilithilien: Why do we do it?, a short commentary on an AfterElton.com article titled "Why are Women Interested in Gay Men? It's Not Because They Want to Sleep With Them!", with discussion in comments. novembermond: has a question about friending meme[s]: "[W]hat are the dos and don'ts ... ?" [Supernatural] ep. 5x10 meta-ish reaction posts - SPOILERS galore! the_shoshanna: Supernatural 5.10, "Abandon All Hope...": "Thanks SO MUCH for making women just the underbrush to be cleared away before the real stuff happens." musesfool: lacrimae volvuntur inanes: "I would like to be able to talk about the episode on its own merits, because I thought it was a fantastic episode emotionally and a great way to go into hiatus, but I am SO FUCKING SICK of the way this show treats female characters." yourlibrarian (in mind_over_meta): SPN 5.10 - A sign of hope: "There's nothing there right now for an audience to cling to, any more than a clear plot direction for Sam and Dean." |
the_shoshanna
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2:51p |
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| Saturday, November 21st, 2009 |
elke_tanzer
|
7:58p |
I'm sitting here in happy tears, because yeah, this is how it feels. Of all of the things I never, ever, ever expected to say in this lifetime... Because general_jinjur is amazing, and the OTW is amazing, and the AO3 is amazing, and the Wrangulator is amazing, and because everyone who is uploading stories and tagging them is amazing... Go read: forma by general_jinjur. It's Tag Wuzzle Wrangler RPF. I will apparently be cosplaying myself next Escapade, y'all. (If there is a fanartist in range of my voice who can draw in the style of Nausicaa Valley of the Wind and is willing to do a commission, please let me know.) (Heck, if any fanartist wants to do something related to this, let general_jinjur know... she says the Wrangulatorverse is open to sharing according to the open-transform statement on her profile, but I'm sure she'd love to hear if you make any derivative work from it!) And yes, the tag wrangling team is still looking for more volunteers. *holds out hand* This entry was originally posted at http://elke-tanzer.dreamwidth.org/1016266.html. Please comment there using OpenID. Current Mood: enthralled |
alixtii
|
7:30p |
Gakked from the flist. Pick a paragraph (or any passage less than 700 words) from any fanfic I've written, and comment to this post with that selection. I will then give you a DVD commentary on that snippet: what I was thinking when I wrote it, why I wrote it in the first place, what's going on in the character's heads, why I chose certain words, what this moment means in the context of the rest of the fic (fic series, fic universe), lots of awful puns, and anything else that you'd expect to find on a DVD commentary track. This entry was originally posted at http://alixtii.dreamwidth.org/315995.html. There are currently comments there. You can comment there, using Open ID (prefered), or here. |
poisontaster
|
2:59p |
And Don't Forget to Breathe I was putting together what new material I have for Appetite and I was really pretty shocked at how little it comes out to be, when assembled. Part of the reason for this is that there are two scenes that I've spent a lot of words on, but it was all writing and rewriting them, trying to find the "right" take for them. So there's verbiage, but most of it is garbage. Or…if not garbage, than discards and it's a real struggle for me to be Zen about this and say that it will come when it comes and accept that with equanimity. There are some stories I can bull my way through. I used to be better at bulling my way through a stubborn story. But now it's a talent that seems to have deserted me and, as usual, I'm not sure how to recover it. On the other hand, I feel like AKB is going like gangbusters. Which is awesome and I am thankful for that, but, at the same time, it's hard not to feel like my success with AKB and that all my excitement and creativity going toward it is detracting from my other goals. And while a part of me doesn't want it to end, the glimmering of the end on the horizon is also a relief. Of course, it also brings up a certain morbid curiosity about what, exactly, will take its place as the object of my obsession. And, of course, the fear that nothing will. In my current spate of 'trashy' reading, I'm reading LKH's Skin Trade and I realized a big part of the many, many things that bother me about the Anita Blake books (and their [de]evolution over time) is the distinct lack of femaleness. ( A little more about that. Not specifically spoilery. )Another thing that I really want to write about, but haven't quite figured out how to talk about it without potentially offending people, is mini_nanowrimo. On the one hand, I understand that it, like anything writing related, is a tool and what people get out of it and how they use it and what it means to them is entirely individual. I can't dispute that. I can't argue with that. But, at the same time, I confess to a certain (un-modly, personal) frustration when people either miss a day of writing or miss a day of posting and decide to pack it up and give up on the challenge entirely. I mean…I get the disappointment of not meeting the goals that you've set for yourself. Boy howdy, do I get that! And I do understand the impulse that, if you cannot be perfect, you'd rather be nothing at all. But I also feel like it's a childish impulse, in its way. The older I get (and the theoretically wiser) the more I think less and care less about perfection and care and think more about perseverance. The way we do one thing is the way we do everything. In this life, we make mistakes, we fail. We fail in so many ways. Some failure is inevitable. And, generally speaking, we don't have the option of packing it in, taking our ball and going home. Generally, we have to stick it out, strap it on and clean up our messes. And I find a certain grace in that. Much more grace, in some ways, than the people who do manage some level of perfection, because it takes guts to faceplant and then get up again and move on. I feel like we spend so much time trying to self-talk ourselves and everyone else into not making any mistakes, to being perfect and we spend none of that time teaching ourselves or each other how to recover from those inevitable failures. Or that a failure doesn't need to be the end of everything. And that a failure in one part doesn't equal complete catastrophe. ( Some more thoughts on the matter. (The opinions within are those of poisontaster, and do not represent the comm as a whole or in part.) ) Current Mood: busyCurrent Music: Alexi Murdoch - Breathe |
poisontaster
|
2:59p |
And Don't Forget to Breathe I was putting together what new material I have for Appetite and I was really pretty shocked at how little it comes out to be, when assembled. Part of the reason for this is that there are two scenes that I've spent a lot of words on, but it was all writing and rewriting them, trying to find the "right" take for them. So there's verbiage, but most of it is garbage. Or…if not garbage, than discards and it's a real struggle for me to be Zen about this and say that it will come when it comes and accept that with equanimity. There are some stories I can bull my way through. I used to be better at bulling my way through a stubborn story. But now it's a talent that seems to have deserted me and, as usual, I'm not sure how to recover it. On the other hand, I feel like AKB is going like gangbusters. Which is awesome and I am thankful for that, but, at the same time, it's hard not to feel like my success with AKB and that all my excitement and creativity going toward it is detracting from my other goals. And while a part of me doesn't want it to end, the glimmering of the end on the horizon is also a relief. Of course, it also brings up a certain morbid curiosity about what, exactly, will take its place as the object of my obsession. And, of course, the fear that nothing will. In my current spate of 'trashy' reading, I'm reading LKH's Skin Trade and I realized a big part of the many, many things that bother me about the Anita Blake books (and their [de]evolution over time) is the distinct lack of femaleness. ( A little more about that. Not specifically spoilery. )Another thing that I really want to write about, but haven't quite figured out how to talk about it without potentially offending people, is mini_nanowrimo. On the one hand, I understand that it, like anything writing related, is a tool and what people get out of it and how they use it and what it means to them is entirely individual. I can't dispute that. I can't argue with that. But, at the same time, I confess to a certain (un-modly, personal) frustration when people either miss a day of writing or miss a day of posting and decide to pack it up and give up on the challenge entirely. I mean…I get the disappointment of not meeting the goals that you've set for yourself. Boy howdy, do I get that! And I do understand the impulse that, if you cannot be perfect, you'd rather be nothing at all. But I also feel like it's a childish impulse, in its way. The older I get (and the theoretically wiser) the more I think less and care less about perfection and care and think more about perseverance. The way we do one thing is the way we do everything. In this life, we make mistakes, we fail. We fail in so many ways. Some failure is inevitable. And, generally speaking, we don't have the option of packing it in, taking our ball and going home. Generally, we have to stick it out, strap it on and clean up our messes. And I find a certain grace in that. Much more grace, in some ways, than the people who do manage some level of perfection, because it takes guts to faceplant and then get up again and move on. I feel like we spend so much time trying to self-talk ourselves and everyone else into not making any mistakes, to being perfect and we spend none of that time teaching ourselves or each other how to recover from those inevitable failures. Or that a failure doesn't need to be the end of everything. And that a failure in one part doesn't equal complete catastrophe. ( Some more thoughts on the matter. (The opinions within are those of poisontaster, and do not represent the comm as a whole or in part.) ) Current Mood: busyCurrent Music: Alexi Murdoch - Breathe |
elke_tanzer
|
10:38a |
tags to consider using on AO3... Speaking just as myself, and not in my role as volunteer tag wuzzle wrangler... my first fanfic my first explicit fanfic embarrassing old fic you don't have to know the canon one of my best if you only read one work by me I think it would be so nifty to be able to see what others choose of their fics for those tags! This entry was originally posted at http://elke-tanzer.dreamwidth.org/1016047.html. Please comment there using OpenID. Current Mood: curious |
| Friday, November 20th, 2009 |
the_shoshanna
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2:54p |
|
whatho
|
5:25p |
Cooking in bulk to save time - busted. I just spent an hour and a quarter making three portions of roasted butternut squash and red pepper soup, one each for my brother and I to have this evening and the other for myself for tomorrow. Only he's gone and eaten two of them in one go. Grrrr. |
dragovianknight
|
8:02a |
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| Thursday, November 19th, 2009 |
poisontaster
|
3:47p |
Fic: A Kept Boy 74/? Fandom: CWRPS Pairing: Jeff/Jensen, Jared/Jensen Rating: Adult Warnings: Slavefic AU. Sexual, mental and physical abuse of adults and minors. Dark themes, adult concepts and language. Disclaimer: This is in no way a true story. Word Count: 2,234 AN: Master list of previous chapters found here. Cast of characters can be found here. Banner by the lovely and generous bloodquartz. Podfic version read by the amazing superstitiousme (found here, courtesy of the very kind general_jinjur). And don't forget the other really awesome stories to be found at whatwekeep. ( This is coming out all wrong again, isn't it? ) Current Mood: pleased |
whatho
|
7:44p |
Panda. I have massive dark circles under my eyes. They confuse and intrigue me. I did have slightly itchy eyes after playing too long in the mould without goggles, but that was yesterday and I've had worse when its polleny and this has never happened before. I don't feel extraordinarily tired, but I look like someone who's trying to hold down three jobs, which is rude of me. I've never worn mascara.
Perhaps my new glasses are too heavy. |
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yuletideadmin
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1:29p |
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| Wednesday, November 18th, 2009 |
dragovianknight
|
9:54p |
As usual, sailing against the prevailing fannish winds To say that I found SPN 5x09 freakin' hilarious, and ( spoilery comment ahoy )I would hang with those fans. Actually, I think I have hung with those fans. But then, keep in mind that I was the one at Anime Expo addressing her question to Lord Zedd and Empress Rita, which I think means I am one of those fans. I just wish I was one of those fans who could afford to restore a classic Impala. Current Mood: amused |
alixtii
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10:06p |
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alixtii
|
3:01p |
More AoOO Thoughts: This Time, With Polyamory So, some other concerns raised about the AoOO's tagging system concerns the genre system. Namely, the two following interrelated concerns have been raised: - The distinction between "Multi" and "Other" is unclear and/or ambiguous.
- There's not a sufficient distinction between, on the one hand, a story with multiple pairings and one with an instance of polyamory, and on the other, a story with an instance of polyamory and a one with pairings between non-traditionally gendered individuals.
The most popular temporary solution put forth is to further refine one's classification of the story with freeform tags. However, as I've set about to do so, I've realized I don't really have a sufficient working understanding of polyamory to do so. Largely this is a result of a monogamocentric (I'm assuming that's what the word would be, and Google attests hits) worldview, in which any relationship can be reduced to a set of pairings. (This, undoubtedly, is the source of the "Multi" tag.) Even a threesome can be reduced in this way: A/B/C becomes A/B, B/C, A/C--but admittedly, this reduction is a distortion, because the threesome is a fundamentally different thing than just the sum of its parts. That's the main complaint as I understand it: the "Multi" tag simply doesn't capture that extra richness. So take a fic like What the Caged Bird Feels, which has two pairings: Dawn/Ethan and Dawn/Giles. Is this an example of polyamory, multiple pairings, or both? (In that story, Dawn is married to Giles. Does it make a difference that's she had sex with Ethan before, and may see it as likely that she'll do it again, or would the dynamic be the same if the relationship with Ethan was a one-time thing. Does Giles' perspective on the whole thing matter?) Or how about Substitution Rule, which manages to be A/B, B/C, and A/C without being A/B/C (and to make it more complicated, C thinks A and B are the same person)? Restricting a poly tag to just threesomes or moresomes doesn't seem to be in accordance with the way real polyamorous people on my flist use the term. But I'm afraid that identifying all (or even most?) cases of a single character being involved in more than one pairing would be too broad a use, which could end up being appropriative. So I'm throwing this out to those on my flist who know more about these issues than I do, in hope we can work out (and/or you can help me work out) a helpful, accurate, and non-appropriating tagging practice for me to utilize, because I've come to realize that my thoughts are much less clear and much more monogamocentric than I had previously realized. (ObDisclaimer: No one is required to help me do this.) This entry was originally posted at http://alixtii.dreamwidth.org/314288.html. There are currently comments there. You can comment there, using Open ID (prefered), or here. |
whatho
|
6:05p |
My infected house. Had a go at treating some of the mould in the back loo this afternoon. It's right next to the kitchen and also the back door and it's powerfully grim - I did at least know about the mould problem in there. The mould remover bleach stuff did actually make a surprising difference, though it's still pretty dreadful in there, and mostly I don't know how deeply it penetrates. I gather I'm supposed to sand it away or something, but that makes the spores fly about and I'd really rather not. My plan was to pull off the infected wallpaper, clean the walls and then paint them with mould-resistant paint, but I think it's too bad for that - it'd likely just break through again in time. Currently I'm just leaving the little window open for ventilation purposes. My brother's quite keen on the whole idea of getting someone into help, and he even says he'd help fund it. I'd quite like the parents to fund it, but apparently my father's refusing to believe in the mould. I raised the topic with my mother yesterday and she passed it on and he says it's just surface mould around where the cat's water dish is. I suppose he's best placed to tell, being SEVERAL HUNDRED MILES AWAY and everything. She's going to try again at a carefully selected moment. In the meantime I'm leaving the door to the back loo shut and trying to forget it exists. Sadly it's right opposite the washing machine. It's hard to avoid entirely.
I'd like to do a post that isn't about mould eventually. It'll likely be about being six months short of thirty or hating everything that's ever happened or ever will or something, or maybe I'll watch The Damned United again and everything'll be fine. |
zulu
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4:41p |
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poisontaster
|
9:40a |
Trusting My Soul to the Ice Cream Assassin Back in Frederick. It's a strange day when that feels like a relief. Things are not good with my mom, but I also don't really want to talk about it, especially on this LJ, which has a different focus than my personal LJ. However: I would like to thank all of you for your support, prayers and kind wishes. While mooching around the hospital, I managed to finish two books: a re-read of Stephen King's Misery, which is one of my absolute favorite books and Charlaine Harris's new book, Grave Secret. I also managed to hit my mini_nanowrimo word count every day--mostly out of sheer stubbornness, I admit, not to mention the long hours of nothing much to do. Of course, now that I'm trying to think about it, I hardly remember what I was working on. I know I'm about a thousand words into the next piece of AKB, but I'm unsure about how I feel about it. I was about 5 or 6 hundred words in when I realized/I thought/I decided I was using the wrong POV character. And I'm still a little undecided about whether I can make it work with the POV I started in or whether I'm going to have to scrap it all and start over. It's one of those scenes where I wish I could convincingly have it both ways and cram both POVs into a single, unbroken scene. I worked some on Appetite, thankfully. If things in the real world go the way they seem like they're going to, I'm going to need to get even MORE serious about putting myself out there. I still feel so ambivalent about it all, though. I feel like I've lost some essential spark of knowing these characters. They feel like caricatures of themselves and I don't know how to get around that to the honest place. Trine has been turning up in the mental hopper at unexpected moments. I think that realizing what kind of tack I was going to take with this story really broke some things loose, though, to be fair, it's more in the prewriting stages than in the actual writing. But I have what looks like the beginning and that's not nothing. I really need to get onboard with my Yuletide story. I couldn't manage to read my entire flist from the point I went AWOL to now, but even reading the purgated "do or die" version of it, it seems like the mods did a superlative job of matching this year. ...I wish I felt the same. And now I'm trying to think about how to talk about this without giving too much away, but let's leave it at this: the fandom is great. The mods did (and do) a great job. I just don't do well when people give me a "Oh, write anything!" prompt with no greater direction. In the world of fandom, I'm a niche, midlist writer and I feel like what interests me, in terms of storytelling, is not going to be what interests the average reader. So there's that. I also need to reaquaint myself with the source material quick, fast and in a hurry. Here's an interesting question: at what point do you give up on a book you're reading? I've had Pride and Prejudice and Zombies in my "currently-reading" queue for months now, but the truth is that, despite my deep love of zombies, I'm not finding it funny or entertaining enough to hold my interest. So should I give up on it entirely and acknowledge that I'm probably never going to care enough to sludge through it, or should I persist, in the idea that I've started it and now I should press on through to the end? What do you do? If you start a book, do you feel obligated to finish it or do you discard it easily the minute it ceases to keep your interest? Current Mood: blah |
poisontaster
|
9:40a |
Trusting My Soul to the Ice Cream Assassin Back in Frederick. It's a strange day when that feels like a relief. Things are not good with my mom, but I also don't really want to talk about it, especially on this LJ, which has a different focus than my personal LJ. However: I would like to thank all of you for your support, prayers and kind wishes. While mooching around the hospital, I managed to finish two books: a re-read of Stephen King's Misery, which is one of my absolute favorite books and Charlaine Harris's new book, Grave Secret. I also managed to hit my mini_nanowrimo word count every day--mostly out of sheer stubbornness, I admit, not to mention the long hours of nothing much to do. Of course, now that I'm trying to think about it, I hardly remember what I was working on. I know I'm about a thousand words into the next piece of AKB, but I'm unsure about how I feel about it. I was about 5 or 6 hundred words in when I realized/I thought/I decided I was using the wrong POV character. And I'm still a little undecided about whether I can make it work with the POV I started in or whether I'm going to have to scrap it all and start over. It's one of those scenes where I wish I could convincingly have it both ways and cram both POVs into a single, unbroken scene. I worked some on Appetite, thankfully. If things in the real world go the way they seem like they're going to, I'm going to need to get even MORE serious about putting myself out there. I still feel so ambivalent about it all, though. I feel like I've lost some essential spark of knowing these characters. They feel like caricatures of themselves and I don't know how to get around that to the honest place. Trine has been turning up in the mental hopper at unexpected moments. I think that realizing what kind of tack I was going to take with this story really broke some things loose, though, to be fair, it's more in the prewriting stages than in the actual writing. But I have what looks like the beginning and that's not nothing. I really need to get onboard with my Yuletide story. I couldn't manage to read my entire flist from the point I went AWOL to now, but even reading the purgated "do or die" version of it, it seems like the mods did a superlative job of matching this year. ...I wish I felt the same. And now I'm trying to think about how to talk about this without giving too much away, but let's leave it at this: the fandom is great. The mods did (and do) a great job. I just don't do well when people give me a "Oh, write anything!" prompt with no greater direction. In the world of fandom, I'm a niche, midlist writer and I feel like what interests me, in terms of storytelling, is not going to be what interests the average reader. So there's that. I also need to reaquaint myself with the source material quick, fast and in a hurry. Here's an interesting question: at what point do you give up on a book you're reading? I've had Pride and Prejudice and Zombies in my "currently-reading" queue for months now, but the truth is that, despite my deep love of zombies, I'm not finding it funny or entertaining enough to hold my interest. So should I give up on it entirely and acknowledge that I'm probably never going to care enough to sludge through it, or should I persist, in the idea that I've started it and now I should press on through to the end? What do you do? If you start a book, do you feel obligated to finish it or do you discard it easily the minute it ceases to keep your interest? Current Mood: blah |
the_shoshanna
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8:23a |
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asylum_promo
[ mugetsu ]
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4:51a |
Vagrant Story, Batman, The Joker, The Pirates of Dark Water fandom asylums octopon - Pirates of DarkWater fandom asylum. Completed! gotham_gazetteCompleted!</i> vagrant_story - Vagrant Story fandom asylum. Pending/WIP.Please keep in mind that I will be retiring Vagrant Story and Gotham Gazette if no further interest is shown.And, Please feel free to join commedia; a personal project of mine, aiming to review and analyze comics (and other selected media) that feature DC Comics' The Joker. It is currently a WIP because I am still going through my 500+ hardcopy!issues collection. I do not download torrents/scans. Two important polls need to be voted on, as seen here explaining two routes the asylum's project can take. IE: spoiler free reviews, spoilerific reviews, etc. This asylum will continue to be WIP until further interest is shown. I am also open to affiliating with other comic book and/or Batman related asylums, except for RPGs. Current Mood: hungry |
| Tuesday, November 17th, 2009 |
alixtii
|
9:13p |
Best Guild Episode Ever! ( embedded video )OMG, so good. Venom is my favorite Axis of Anarchy member (and I just looked her up, and the part is actually played by a disable actor!), and was awesome, but what was best about the episode was the way all the characters were utilized with great moments and great dialogue--the only person who was really missing was Tara Caso's character, Dina. ETA: The more I read, the more awesome Teal Sherer seems to be (although I must admit my interest is fairly shallow). And I know that she and Felicia would have first worked together on Warm Springs (which I'll probably now move a little bit farther up my Netflix queue). Which makes me want The Guild RPF all that much more. This entry was originally posted at http://alixtii.dreamwidth.org/313900.html. There are currently comments there. You can comment there, using Open ID (prefered), or here. |
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